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	<title>Comments on: Inglorious Olympics</title>
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	<description>You can't have everything. Where would you put it?</description>
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		<title>By: John the Scientist</title>
		<link>http://smugpuppies.com/2008/08/12/inglorious-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-2100</link>
		<dc:creator>John the Scientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 01:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smugpuppies.com/?p=1016#comment-2100</guid>
		<description>&quot;What I find curious is the relative lack of coverage (and/or actual sources) of dissent from the Chinese-American community.&quot;

There&#039;s no coverage because the Chinese-American community is keeping their dissent in-house.  There is quite a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/04/01/BAGRF5UNV61.DTL&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;split&lt;/a&gt; in the San Francisco Chinatown between the newcomers who toe the PRC party line, and the old-timers, who hail mostly from Hong Kong or elsewhere in Canton. This plays out elsewhere in the Chinese-American community, but gets little press play. 

The Taiwanese faction has been laughing up their sleeves at every Mainland gaffe, but have not said anything much in our press for a couple of reasons. One is expressed in the saying: 一事無成 yishiwucheng - roughly, &quot;it will accomplish nothing&quot;. The other is that they do feel some pride in a Chinese venue, and they feel that stepping out of line at this point fuels racist nonsense like the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/11/olympicsbasketball.olympics20081&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;crap&lt;/a&gt; pulled by Spanish basketball team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What I find curious is the relative lack of coverage (and/or actual sources) of dissent from the Chinese-American community.&#8221;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no coverage because the Chinese-American community is keeping their dissent in-house.  There is quite a <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/04/01/BAGRF5UNV61.DTL" rel="nofollow">split</a> in the San Francisco Chinatown between the newcomers who toe the PRC party line, and the old-timers, who hail mostly from Hong Kong or elsewhere in Canton. This plays out elsewhere in the Chinese-American community, but gets little press play. </p>
<p>The Taiwanese faction has been laughing up their sleeves at every Mainland gaffe, but have not said anything much in our press for a couple of reasons. One is expressed in the saying: 一事無成 yishiwucheng &#8211; roughly, &#8220;it will accomplish nothing&#8221;. The other is that they do feel some pride in a Chinese venue, and they feel that stepping out of line at this point fuels racist nonsense like the <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/11/olympicsbasketball.olympics20081" rel="nofollow">crap</a> pulled by Spanish basketball team.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Weber</title>
		<link>http://smugpuppies.com/2008/08/12/inglorious-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-2098</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Weber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smugpuppies.com/?p=1016#comment-2098</guid>
		<description>What I find curious is the relative lack of coverage (and/or actual sources) of dissent from the Chinese-American community. Especially when compared to the Cuban-American community for example.
I&#039;m also of the mind that China put itself in a no-win position in pursuing this bid given the current state of their society, economy and infrastructure. Whatever small gains they have won with the rest of the world have been more than offset by their blunders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find curious is the relative lack of coverage (and/or actual sources) of dissent from the Chinese-American community. Especially when compared to the Cuban-American community for example.<br />
I&#8217;m also of the mind that China put itself in a no-win position in pursuing this bid given the current state of their society, economy and infrastructure. Whatever small gains they have won with the rest of the world have been more than offset by their blunders.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeri</title>
		<link>http://smugpuppies.com/2008/08/12/inglorious-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-2096</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smugpuppies.com/?p=1016#comment-2096</guid>
		<description>John, I realize the Chinese toilets are normal for that culture, and are considered to be more hygienic, but for the host not to consider the guest&#039;s requirements is a little rude.  As a multi-knee surgery patient, my knee would be in a world of hurt after 3 weeks on the ground in China - I&#039;d need another surgery to clean up the damage, if I could even get up and down any more. (I realize that puts me firmly in the camp of aged and infirm... yikes!)

Eric, you&#039;re right, there are many similarities with 1936 - although I certainly hope there&#039;s no impending world war on the horizon.  There are certainly enough regional wars. :(  China&#039;s posture, need to present a proud face, and determination to impose their version of reality on the world in the media and to a live audience is definitely reminiscent -- good call.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I realize the Chinese toilets are normal for that culture, and are considered to be more hygienic, but for the host not to consider the guest&#8217;s requirements is a little rude.  As a multi-knee surgery patient, my knee would be in a world of hurt after 3 weeks on the ground in China &#8211; I&#8217;d need another surgery to clean up the damage, if I could even get up and down any more. (I realize that puts me firmly in the camp of aged and infirm&#8230; yikes!)</p>
<p>Eric, you&#8217;re right, there are many similarities with 1936 &#8211; although I certainly hope there&#8217;s no impending world war on the horizon.  There are certainly enough regional wars. <img src='http://smugpuppies.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' />   China&#8217;s posture, need to present a proud face, and determination to impose their version of reality on the world in the media and to a live audience is definitely reminiscent &#8212; good call.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeri</title>
		<link>http://smugpuppies.com/2008/08/12/inglorious-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-2093</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smugpuppies.com/?p=1016#comment-2093</guid>
		<description>Hmmm... I guess where my cultural lens sees the Chinese as surly, ungracious, tyrannical hosts - their culture dictates otherwise. Still, I think the IOC has an obligation to award the Olympics to a host country where oppression and human rights abuses are not the norm, where it&#039;s not such a downright uncomfortable, if not fearful, place to be a guest if you want to play the game.

Vince, I do agree on the politicization of the modern Olympics - from the award to the nations participating to the unfolding international backdrop during the games.  It must be particularly painful for Russian and Georgian athletes right about now!

On the &quot;our government isn&#039;t spotless&quot; note - can you imagine the TSA complaints that would be generated by a USA-hosted Olympics right about now?  Oh. My. Goodness.  It would be pretty brutal. We&#039;d probably be denying entrance to teams&#039; javelins, strip-searching paralympians, and pissing off giant weightlifters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230; I guess where my cultural lens sees the Chinese as surly, ungracious, tyrannical hosts &#8211; their culture dictates otherwise. Still, I think the IOC has an obligation to award the Olympics to a host country where oppression and human rights abuses are not the norm, where it&#8217;s not such a downright uncomfortable, if not fearful, place to be a guest if you want to play the game.</p>
<p>Vince, I do agree on the politicization of the modern Olympics &#8211; from the award to the nations participating to the unfolding international backdrop during the games.  It must be particularly painful for Russian and Georgian athletes right about now!</p>
<p>On the &#8220;our government isn&#8217;t spotless&#8221; note &#8211; can you imagine the TSA complaints that would be generated by a USA-hosted Olympics right about now?  Oh. My. Goodness.  It would be pretty brutal. We&#8217;d probably be denying entrance to teams&#8217; javelins, strip-searching paralympians, and pissing off giant weightlifters.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://smugpuppies.com/2008/08/12/inglorious-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-2092</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smugpuppies.com/?p=1016#comment-2092</guid>
		<description>Well, I wish we were engaging Cuba.  The past fifty years of our Cuban policy has been a ridiculous waste of time, money and opportunity.

As much as I would like for our foreign policy to consistently reflect our ideals, there has to be pragmatism, and China is too big and too vital for us to treat like a pariah state.  I&#039;d like to think, too, that engagement might eventually pull China into liberalism; that hasn&#039;t worked especially well unless you count the slow shift China has made from being a totalitarian state to merely being an &lt;i&gt;authoritarian&lt;/i&gt; one, but that&#039;s probably another debate.

I have to admit: I am not and have never been an Olympics fan, and it always surprises me a little when people appear shocked at the latest round of politicization, corruption, scandal, or whatever.  At the risk of invoking Godwin, have the 2008 Summer Olympics been that different from the 1936 Summer Olympics?  It seems to me, indeed, that the major difference is that the authoritarian state of 2008 has been &lt;i&gt;less&lt;/i&gt; successful in using the Olympics as a ministry than the authoritarians of &#039;36: notwithstanding China&#039;s attempts to sanitize the coverage, there have still been protests, some world leaders have declined to attend, and there&#039;s unlikely to be a &lt;i&gt;Triumph Of The Will&lt;/i&gt; to excite and inspire nationalists at home and sympathizers abroad.

At any rate, it remains a marvel to me that the Olympics have any reputation or regard left to lose.  The whole thing has always been a political sideshow and nationalist project, has always been rife with corruption and cheating, has never lived up to its ideals as an institution regardless of all those small moments when an individual athlete shone and sparkled amidst the rubbish with a personal and hard-won moment of achievement.  But obviously, I&#039;m in a small minority--perhaps I&#039;m just too focused on the whole forest and &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; be spending more time on those few spectacular trees that dot the terrain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I wish we were engaging Cuba.  The past fifty years of our Cuban policy has been a ridiculous waste of time, money and opportunity.</p>
<p>As much as I would like for our foreign policy to consistently reflect our ideals, there has to be pragmatism, and China is too big and too vital for us to treat like a pariah state.  I&#8217;d like to think, too, that engagement might eventually pull China into liberalism; that hasn&#8217;t worked especially well unless you count the slow shift China has made from being a totalitarian state to merely being an <i>authoritarian</i> one, but that&#8217;s probably another debate.</p>
<p>I have to admit: I am not and have never been an Olympics fan, and it always surprises me a little when people appear shocked at the latest round of politicization, corruption, scandal, or whatever.  At the risk of invoking Godwin, have the 2008 Summer Olympics been that different from the 1936 Summer Olympics?  It seems to me, indeed, that the major difference is that the authoritarian state of 2008 has been <i>less</i> successful in using the Olympics as a ministry than the authoritarians of &#8217;36: notwithstanding China&#8217;s attempts to sanitize the coverage, there have still been protests, some world leaders have declined to attend, and there&#8217;s unlikely to be a <i>Triumph Of The Will</i> to excite and inspire nationalists at home and sympathizers abroad.</p>
<p>At any rate, it remains a marvel to me that the Olympics have any reputation or regard left to lose.  The whole thing has always been a political sideshow and nationalist project, has always been rife with corruption and cheating, has never lived up to its ideals as an institution regardless of all those small moments when an individual athlete shone and sparkled amidst the rubbish with a personal and hard-won moment of achievement.  But obviously, I&#8217;m in a small minority&#8211;perhaps I&#8217;m just too focused on the whole forest and <i>should</i> be spending more time on those few spectacular trees that dot the terrain.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://smugpuppies.com/2008/08/12/inglorious-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-2089</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smugpuppies.com/?p=1016#comment-2089</guid>
		<description>Whatever we think of the Chinese - shot through the prism of our own cultural perceptions - we can&#039;t just refuse to deal with them.  Certainly, we can try to do so on our own terms, but like any give-and-take, we&#039;re not always going to get what we want.  One major problem is the totally different perception of the value of human life that culture has vs. that of the West, that is, not nearly as much value is placed on the life of the common man.  I suspect that in spite of the censorship and supression, the Chinese culture will continue to change and moderate (from our perspective) into something less repressive.  Communism is a dismal failure, but dictatorship, whatever the guise of the system (fascist to communist, the end result is the same, really) does at times work, depending on the will of the people to live with it.  As the people there decide not to, and the system breaks down, then things will change.

Me, I just enjoy seeing Michael Phelps kick the French&#039;s butts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever we think of the Chinese &#8211; shot through the prism of our own cultural perceptions &#8211; we can&#8217;t just refuse to deal with them.  Certainly, we can try to do so on our own terms, but like any give-and-take, we&#8217;re not always going to get what we want.  One major problem is the totally different perception of the value of human life that culture has vs. that of the West, that is, not nearly as much value is placed on the life of the common man.  I suspect that in spite of the censorship and supression, the Chinese culture will continue to change and moderate (from our perspective) into something less repressive.  Communism is a dismal failure, but dictatorship, whatever the guise of the system (fascist to communist, the end result is the same, really) does at times work, depending on the will of the people to live with it.  As the people there decide not to, and the system breaks down, then things will change.</p>
<p>Me, I just enjoy seeing Michael Phelps kick the French&#8217;s butts.</p>
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		<title>By: John the Scientist</title>
		<link>http://smugpuppies.com/2008/08/12/inglorious-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-2085</link>
		<dc:creator>John the Scientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smugpuppies.com/?p=1016#comment-2085</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not so inclined to fault the Chinese for the squat toilets, but then I&#039;ve lived in Asia and traveled there a lot. If you want everything to be like home, stay there, is my attitude - that goes for the good and the bad. That being said, I&#039;m not jumping up and down to go back to Thailand, seeing as they can&#039;t even properly chlorinate their drinking water in the freaking capital city.

As for the masks - that was a deliberate slight. The airport is far away from downtown Beijing, and it&#039;s air conditioned, for Pete&#039;s sake. They knew cameras were going to be on them deplaning, so they donned the masks as a protest. Now, putting them on as soon as they got out of the taxi and onto the street in Downtown Beijing - just fine. Wearing them inside an air conditioned building, be it hotel or airport - insulting.

However, I&#039;d like to see all the athletes wearing them on the street, and actually on the field when not competing, to protest the obvious bribery of the IOC by the Chinese, and their blatant lying about future air quality when they were awarded the games.

All the rest I agree with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not so inclined to fault the Chinese for the squat toilets, but then I&#8217;ve lived in Asia and traveled there a lot. If you want everything to be like home, stay there, is my attitude &#8211; that goes for the good and the bad. That being said, I&#8217;m not jumping up and down to go back to Thailand, seeing as they can&#8217;t even properly chlorinate their drinking water in the freaking capital city.</p>
<p>As for the masks &#8211; that was a deliberate slight. The airport is far away from downtown Beijing, and it&#8217;s air conditioned, for Pete&#8217;s sake. They knew cameras were going to be on them deplaning, so they donned the masks as a protest. Now, putting them on as soon as they got out of the taxi and onto the street in Downtown Beijing &#8211; just fine. Wearing them inside an air conditioned building, be it hotel or airport &#8211; insulting.</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;d like to see all the athletes wearing them on the street, and actually on the field when not competing, to protest the obvious bribery of the IOC by the Chinese, and their blatant lying about future air quality when they were awarded the games.</p>
<p>All the rest I agree with.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://smugpuppies.com/2008/08/12/inglorious-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-2082</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 04:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smugpuppies.com/?p=1016#comment-2082</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This is the subject of citizen protest at this time - brave folks, given Chinese history!&lt;/i&gt;

I love seeing Chinese protestors, whether it be human rights, environmental concerns, or like you cite here, governmental injustice.  They always make me very proud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This is the subject of citizen protest at this time &#8211; brave folks, given Chinese history!</i></p>
<p>I love seeing Chinese protestors, whether it be human rights, environmental concerns, or like you cite here, governmental injustice.  They always make me very proud.</p>
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		<title>By: Vince</title>
		<link>http://smugpuppies.com/2008/08/12/inglorious-olympics/comment-page-1/#comment-2081</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 02:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smugpuppies.com/?p=1016#comment-2081</guid>
		<description>For the most part, I agree. Especially how we (I mean the government) give China favored-nation status despite repression, cyber-attacks, and so on, but Cuba, oh my goodness, they are teh evil and dangerous and wicked and we must run away, run away. 

A couple of things, however. First, the modern Olympics have always been politicized and always will be. Second, what else do you expect from the Chinese government. Of course, our government&#039;s record ain&#039;t spotless, either. One blog made recommendations about security of laptops, cell phones, and other information if you were going to China for the Olympics. Some people called the author racists - me, I called him realistic.

Finally, while doping is a serious problem, many of the methods used to catch dopers is no better than polygraphs trying to catch liars. Much better tests (and by that I mean ones that have far less false positives) need to be developed.

Anyway, that&#039;s my humble opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the most part, I agree. Especially how we (I mean the government) give China favored-nation status despite repression, cyber-attacks, and so on, but Cuba, oh my goodness, they are teh evil and dangerous and wicked and we must run away, run away. </p>
<p>A couple of things, however. First, the modern Olympics have always been politicized and always will be. Second, what else do you expect from the Chinese government. Of course, our government&#8217;s record ain&#8217;t spotless, either. One blog made recommendations about security of laptops, cell phones, and other information if you were going to China for the Olympics. Some people called the author racists &#8211; me, I called him realistic.</p>
<p>Finally, while doping is a serious problem, many of the methods used to catch dopers is no better than polygraphs trying to catch liars. Much better tests (and by that I mean ones that have far less false positives) need to be developed.</p>
<p>Anyway, that&#8217;s my humble opinion.</p>
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